Curse

Gun Pierson · Mar 22, 2008, 02:33 AM // 02:33

@ Master Knightfall:

1) imba is no argument because of ursan which was your main point. HM DoA full run in 2 hours netting 50k should say enough about the prowness of Ursan (just to argument no QQ at Ursan from me). You can't even start there with heroes as you only have 3 and no hench available. I play both ursan way and 2 men + 6 heroes teams regurarly and nothing can top Ursan in pure power. That one more hero won't suddenly shake the world to oblivion as 2 men + 6 heroes are pretty comon as a dev once explained.

2) they said 'no' to many things but changed things in favor of the comunity (remember Razah, DoA, more storage, etc. etc.) Games change nowadays.

3) Hard mode wasn't build in either as many other things that weren't since the release of prophecies.

4) who cares about henchies, you wanne play with them sure go ahead but let other people have more fun with synergy teambuilds and whatnot. Btw henchies are still there for people who don't own Nightfall and EOTN so they will still have a use afterall if that's your argument.

5) more data space? Nothing that can be a prob imo as the devs alrdy tested with 7 heroes according to Anet. If they can code the data for the use of 3 heroes, I'm confident Anet has the knowhow and space to do it for 7. Time might be a problem because of GW2 but I don't wanne put words in Anet's mouth, it could be an easy excuse.

6) It would make the game more fun to a lot of people imo. Happy people can't be that bad for sales, unless Anet thinks it would make GW so popular it would overshadow GW2. But shouldn't GW2 be better in the first place.

changeling · Mar 22, 2008, 02:35 AM // 02:35

I, too, would like to see 7-Hero teams implemented. This issue actually does not affect me directly one way or the other. I am one of the lucky ones; I have another GW player in residence. Between myself and my companion, we have good, full complements of heroes and can make a wide variety of team builds. However, I recognize that I am, in fact, lucky, and I think it would be a marvelous innovation if other folks could have something like the same experience through use of 7-hero teams. I can certainly understand the argument that missions in Prophecies and Factions (I can't speak to Nightfall) would be made too easy this way, though many of the balance concerns have been fully addressed earlier in this thread. GWEN, on the other hand, is tougher and built for stronger teams. Thus, I would like to suggest a compromise.
Implement 7-Hero teams in GWEN. Try it for a weekend, as others have suggested before now. The devs have theories; the players have theories. Further argument is probably profitless. Try the experiment and see how these theories hold up in game.

gone · Mar 22, 2008, 02:42 AM // 02:42

it just isn't going to happen. Do you really think anet wants to embarrass themselves by showing it's players how sup-par the game really is/has become?

even if 7 heroes are allowed only in HM, it would be laughable.

bhavv · Mar 22, 2008, 02:51 AM // 02:51

I was trying to ask Gaile today how come 7 heroes are considered imbalanced compared to Ursanway, but she wouldnt answer.

I guess they just dont care about 7 heroes at all anymore.

Zahr Dalsk · Mar 22, 2008, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by flubber

it just isn't going to happen. Do you really think anet wants to embarrass themselves by showing it's players how sup-par the game really is/has become?

How sub-par the PUG players are, not the game.

And of course removing the hero cap will improve the game, so that's a good thing.

gone · Mar 22, 2008, 02:57 AM // 02:57

just imagine this...

the henchies we have now, but without the shit builds and as good, if not better AI as the HM monsters.

there would be no need for more heros. right?

Gun Pierson · Mar 22, 2008, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

I was trying to ask Gaile today how come 7 heroes are considered imbalanced compared to Ursanway, but she wouldnt answer.

I guess they just dont care about 7 heroes at all anymore.

Yeah I was there too and asked the same and didn't get an answer on that either. It seems a delicate issue with ursan and all. It's a contradiction and at this point I think that we will either get 7 heroes or Ursan will eventualy get nerfed.

Zahr Dalsk · Mar 22, 2008, 03:02 AM // 03:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by flubber

just imagine this...

the henchies we have now, but without the shit builds and as good, if not better AI as the HM monsters.

there would be no need for more heros. right?

Yes, there would be a need, because some of us like using our own specific builds, not whatever generic build the henchmen carry. Consider also that the henchmen cannot be flagged or tailored to the team build, they have some incredibly annoying battle quotes (particularly Devona and Talon Silverwing), and their AI is even worse than the heroes.

Which brings me to another thing. ArenaNet needs to stop fiddling with the heroes' AI; it's just irritating.

gone · Mar 22, 2008, 03:06 AM // 03:06

lol.

what I'm getting at is we might have a better chance in seeing henchies UPGRADED. more heros just ain't gonna happen. it will make an already easy game, silly easy. and trust me, I'm all for 7 heroes but I know, and all of you know as well, it's in nogo status. at least until the near-death status of GW.

Zahr Dalsk · Mar 22, 2008, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by flubber

it will make an already easy game, silly easy.

Ursan already has. What 7 heroes will do is make the game fun, unlike Ursan.

arcanemacabre · Mar 22, 2008, 04:18 AM // 04:18

Every area of the game except for areas that require more than one zone to get to (such other levels of multi-level dungeons, and zones not attached to towns like Mineral Springs) can support one player with 6 heroes. How? Team up with another player with 3 heroes, or use a secondary account, and have them leave. Bam. There ya go.

So someone is going to have to explain how having one extra hero is going to make the game that much easier. Before you say "Well, multi-level dungeons, there ya go!" I submit to you these facts - DoA, Slavers, FoW, UW, Urgoz, and the Deep are all 'single-level' (or each section in the case of DoA and Slavers is single-level) areas. One person, six heroes, all doable, and all considered "elite." So again, explain how that one extra hero is going to change everything.

EDIT: Simply put, the way the system is now, it favors those with secondary accounts and plenty of time to get one character on that account with decked-out heroes and many towns unlocked. It's unfair to just about everyone else. Just to throw this out there, I can personally do this anytime I want as my wife has all these areas unlocked and fully decked out heroes. Anytime she's not around, I still have 6 heroes anywhere I want.

Winterclaw · Mar 22, 2008, 04:28 AM // 04:28

...

The only way there could justifiably be 7 heroes in a party is if ANet decided to make a super hardmode. And in that case, you might be better off with real people.

enter_the_zone · Mar 22, 2008, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Every area of the game except for areas that require more than one zone to get to (such other levels of multi-level dungeons, and zones not attached to towns like Mineral Springs) can support one player with 6 heroes. How? Team up with another player with 3 heroes, or use a secondary account, and have them leave. Bam. There ya go.

So someone is going to have to explain how having one extra hero is going to make the game that much easier. Before you say "Well, multi-level dungeons, there ya go!" I submit to you these facts - DoA, Slavers, FoW, UW, Urgoz, and the Deep are all 'single-level' (or each section in the case of DoA and Slavers is single-level) areas. One person, six heroes, all doable, and all considered "elite." So again, explain how that one extra hero is going to change everything.

EDIT: Simply put, the way the system is now, it favors those with secondary accounts and plenty of time to get one character on that account with decked-out heroes and many towns unlocked. It's unfair to just about everyone else. Just to throw this out there, I can personally do this anytime I want as my wife has all these areas unlocked and fully decked out heroes. Anytime she's not around, I still have 6 heroes anywhere I want.

Nods. If I'm playing as Ursan, sometimes I'll even play both accounts simultaneously. To be fair, I do that with ele, hammer war and MM as well, not just Ursan

Gun Pierson · Mar 22, 2008, 04:34 AM // 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

...

The only way there could justifiably be 7 heroes in a party is if ANet decided to make a super hardmode. And in that case, you might be better off with real people.

Ask for Hell Mode for Ursan when you're at it. I have no prob with Ursan but couldn't resist

Seriously the imba point is rediculous by now as explained above and on the last pages by myself, arcanacabre and other loyal customers of this thread.

FoxBat · Mar 22, 2008, 04:50 AM // 04:50

It's there solely to "encourage" you to group up with at least one other person, especially in the elite areas where henchies can't follow. Same reason heroes can't use PvE skills. (Which will be the next thing this crowd is demanding, surely.)

Gun Pierson · Mar 22, 2008, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

It's there solely to "encourage" you to group up with at least one other person, especially in the elite areas where henchies can't follow. Same reason heroes can't use PvE skills. (Which will be the next thing this crowd is demanding, surely.)

Actually this is an interesting thought. If this would be the case than the question is if that encouragement is worth the price. Pug people will say yeah sure while the others will just keep on playing h/h or with guildies and friends and avoid pugging as much as they can.

PvE only skills is another matter though, I haven't really thought about it yet.

Isileth · Mar 22, 2008, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

...

The only way there could justifiably be 7 heroes in a party is if ANet decided to make a super hardmode. And in that case, you might be better off with real people.

You say that as if heroes give some form of advantage...

Which as has been discussed many many times in this thread just isnt the case. A good teams of players is more powerful than a team of 7 heroes so balance isnt a concern.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

It's there solely to "encourage" you to group up with at least one other person, especially in the elite areas where henchies can't follow. Same reason heroes can't use PvE skills. (Which will be the next thing this crowd is demanding, surely.)

And why should people be encouraged to pug?
I purchased the game because it said I could play with AI, it was sold as a game you could choose how you played. Not be punished for picking the "incorrect" option.

No matter what I wont pug, if the option for AI wasnt there I just wouldnt play.
So it doesnt encourage me to pug, it just makes the game less appealing.

upier · Mar 22, 2008, 07:29 AM // 07:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by flubber

lol.

what I'm getting at is we might have a better chance in seeing henchies UPGRADED. more heros just ain't gonna happen. it will make an already easy game, silly easy. and trust me, I'm all for 7 heroes but I know, and all of you know as well, it's in nogo status. at least until the near-death status of GW.

Why does the easy argument always seem to be the most important?
I pretty much NM only. The game is already easy.
What heroes bring is variety in builds. It's kinda a waste to run an a bunch of supportive characters that provide other chars with adrenaline if the hench have no adrenaline skills. But that also means MY builds need to be shit because of it (or at least not as good as they could be!)!
That's pretty much the only reason why a 7 hero party is needed.

And yeah I could party up with other people. Theoretically. Now find me another dude at Copperhammer that wants to play heavy physical. At any given time of the day.
We are just too spread on 4 games for that to be a realistic option.

Master Knightfall · Mar 22, 2008, 08:29 AM // 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Ursan already has. What 7 heroes will do is make the game fun, unlike Ursan.

For the record EVERYONE DOESN'T HAVE URSANS or EOTN and also EVERYONE DOESN'T HAVE NIGHTFALL, so, there's only a small portion of the community wanting to get 7 heroes as opposed to the others that just have Factions or Prophecies or the combination of the two. So, as Anet has stated there's not going to be 7 Heroes. Now they never said they weren't going to make Razah easier to get or that everyone wasn't going to get extra storage that Factions brought, but, they HAVE SAID there's NOT going to BE 7 HEROES. <grin> Changes came from things they never said one way or the other about, but, 7 heroes has been officially stated "NOT GOING TO HAPPEN" and you can whine and cry and QQ about it all you want to till you're blue in the face, but, it ain't gonna happen as their direction now is GW2 and even in GW2 they are eliminating the Heroes and Henchies for a "companion" so, if you think only 3 heroes is bad now, and 4 henchies just wait till you get GW2 and don't have any heroes or henchies. <grin>

upier · Mar 22, 2008, 08:36 AM // 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

For the record EVERYONE DOESN'T HAVE URSANS or EOTN and also EVERYONE DOESN'T HAVE NIGHTFALL, so, there's only a small portion of the community wanting to get 7 heroes as opposed to the others that just have Factions or Prophecies or the combination of the two.

That's their problem.
It's not like A.net is trying to sell a product or something ....